Rai (00:00):
All right. So welcome to the store podcast. Today we have Kinsey Phelps of Blue Table Design and Kinsey is the only designer that I will trust with both of my brands. She does all of our social graphics, all of our PDFs. She makes everything beautiful and she is my go-to girl for all things pretty. So Kinsey tell us a little bit about your business and what you do. Cos I know you do so much outside of working for Cornell and Chiron.

Kinsey (00:30):
Yeah. So my business is called Blue Table Design and I started that in 2015. I do website design, general graphic design and social media design for businesses and agencies. Yeah, like I said, I’ve been doing that since 2015. I’ve created about 25 websites now. And I have managed, probably six or seven different social media accounts and then have just been doing a bunch of other marketing work as well.

Rai (01:12):
And that’s a lot for an individual cos you know, oftentimes we think of, okay, so big businesses, they have thousands of customers or thousands of clients per month, but us as freelancers really don’t need that much. I mean, if you’re a solo preneur, if you’re going it alone, you don’t have a huge team and you don’t have a lot of overhead or anything like that. Oftentimes you need like anywhere from one to five, maybe six clients a month, depending on what your services are and your pricing and your financial goals. And so for you to manage that many accounts and build that many websites, and I know you do like ongoing maintenance for those as well. That’s quite a lot.

Kinsey (01:53):
Yeah, it can be. And thankfully I have a good network, good support system around me to help with that. But that hasn’t always been the case. I’m just now to a place in my business where I feel confident about the future and hopeful and I have some strategy in place and some plans and things like that. Whereas when I first started out, I was just, you know, I just kind of jumped in.

Rai (02:21):
So tell me about that. Tell me about that jumping in process, because your professional background is actually very diverse. You were a teacher, you were in marketing at an actual, like in-house position and you’ve done a lot of different roles. So how did you get to the point where you said, you know what, I don’t want to be a W2 employee anymore. I’m ready to go out on my own and I want to freelance and I want to build my own business.

Kinsey (02:47):
Yeah. Well I was, I was teaching at the time, like you mentioned, and my career path has been really windy and crazy and I mean, I wouldn’t have it any other way. That’s just me. But, yeah, I was teaching at the time and I had just moved school districts, my husband and I had just gotten married. We got married in the middle of the school year. And as a teacher, that was, I don’t know what I was thinking, but I’ll tell you put that on my headstone someday. Here she lies, what was I thinking? Um, but anyway, so we got married in the middle of the year in December. I had taken on a lot of projects for the wedding that were created. Like I created our wedding website and I had always done, um, some freelance things on the side for people.

Kinsey (03:34):
And my husband had always kind of urged me in this direction and I had thought that it was a little too risky, you know, but he is just, he is an enthusiast, you know, if he decides something’s a good idea, if he decides he likes someone, if he decides he likes a certain sports team, he’s going to route them on till the bitter end. You know? So, I always had him in my corner and kind of nudging me along. So that was really helpful in making the jump. And I mean, while we’re on that topic, there’s a lot of discussion about, you know, the jump, the leap that freelancers make going from part-time to full-time. And for me, I, you know, I don’t want to put on any airs here. Like it wasn’t really, it wasn’t like leaping off a cliff.

Kinsey (04:32):
Like it is for a lot of other business owners, you know, with no safety net where they just go for it. For me, I liken it more to like getting on a roller coaster because I was married, you know, I’m not, I knew that the lights were going to stay on and then two that we were going to have food to eat. So yeah, a roller coaster where you have a seatbelt, it’s been tested, it’s going to be a little scary, but it’s mainly fun. And yeah. I mean, has it stretched us financially at times? Yes. Has it made a lot of our goals as a couple, a little more slow-going? Yes, definitely. But in the end I was, I just had nothing but support. So it was a pretty easy decision for meto go full time.

Rai (05:19):
It’s interesting that you weren’t the risk taker in the situation. You were actually the one who was like, Oh, I don’t know about this. I’m hesitant to jump in. And Ches was the one who was actually pushing forward.

Kinsey (05:34):
Definitely, definitely. So like I said, it wasn’t that scary. I was just excited to make the leap. I’m just kind of, I’m kind of that type as a creative, I like new things. And I was excited about taking on something new and doing what I always had wanted to do from the beginning. You know, if I had trusted intuition when I was 18 and figuring out my, my path in college, I would have been doing this all along, but I got a little scared, of just pursuing an art degree. And I can say just pursuing an art degree, it’s a big deal. But I was, I was nervous about that. You know, I, I remember when I researched the program here at the university that I chose Texas tech here in Lubbock, I learned that you can minor in anything and at that time, Oh, I thought you, you needed a minor, you know, little did I know who cares? Like nobody cares that you minor in really. I mean, it does diversify your coursework and that’s what I was trying to do, but it definitely scared me off from staying on that path that I wanted to be on from the beginning.

Rai (06:50):
That’s really interesting. And that’s actually a part of your story that I didn’t know that when you were 18, you were actually considering going into the arts and graphic design. And I think your path is one that a lot of freelancers can resonate with. I mean, that was certainly my path. I did the exact same thing where I had always had a passion for writing. I minored in creative writing, but my bachelor’s degree is in psychology. And then I went down the path to getting my license, become a prison counselor, and now I’m back here writing again in both businesses. So it’s something that, you know, it’s funny that you said that if you had trusted your intuition, when you were 18, you would have started this path earlier on, but I’m wondering if there was something along that journey that you had to learn before you were actually ready to go on to be a freelancer and a self-employed business owner.

Kinsey (07:48):
Yeah, I’m sure there were lots of things that I had to learn. I mean, like I said, my path has been really windy and I’ve done a lot of different things from teaching. I did get my initial job. So my degree that I decided upon was advertising with a minor in marketing. Like so many of us at that time in 2007, graduated with, and I did get a job in the advertising division of a newspaper in Houston – Houston Chronicle, and quickly I realized, Oh, wow! Again, whats I thinking? Like, this is way more sale. It’s 99% sales. And that is never anything that I wanted to do. I had always wanted to be on the creative side and hoped that there was some type of role in advertising that would allow me to somehow be creative, but yet not be a graphic designer.

Kinsey (08:44):
I don’t know, again, don’t know what I was thinking, but, I am really proud of that move and that job, because I moved down to Houston. I didn’t know many people there and it ended up being a good experience. I had great bosses, a couple of coworkers that I thought were really cool and just explore that city away from home. But I think it was 2009, when all of the newspapers across the nation started really hurting and they laid off tons of people. My apartment lease was up and I just kind of thought maybe it’s time to pack it up and go home. So I did, I moved back to Amarillo where my parents had relocated at the time. And that’s when I fell into teaching because there, I I’ve always loved kids and I’d always wanted to, I was always interested in teaching. I come from a dad who’s a school administrator and had always been in the school business as we say. So, I was interested in that and I took a job as a teaching assistant in the headstart program with three-year-olds. So, yeah, which was really fun, really, really fun. And that’s how I, that’s how I wound up in teaching ultimately, just because there weren’t a lot of advertising opportunities for a new girl in town. Like I knew no one in Amarillo.

Rai (10:18):
And was that your last job before you decided to go full freelance?

Kinsey (10:22):
Oh, teaching, yeah. I pursued my alternative teaching certification in Texas and other States. They have programs that, where they assess what your coursework that you did in college to see what you’re qualified to teach. And then you take a few classes. I did a semester of student teaching and then I got my certification and I taught for three years in various elementary grade, grade levels and subject areas. And I loved it. I really did. I didn’t take leaving teaching lightly because I believe so passionately about it. And I just like kids. I just think if you are in a space where you need to be present in life, go hang out with a kid. Like they don’t know how to be anything but pleasant and in the moment, you know, and they’re so innocent and they’re so pure. And I think that we need good teachers to nurture and protect our future. So I didn’t take it lightly, but honestly, the amount of time I was spending working commensurate with the salary, I mean, it just stopped making sense for me and my family.

Rai (11:45):
And then from there, when did you move back down to Lubbock? Because I’m trying to think of how did you get from leaving your teaching career to where we met, which was working at the coworking space together.

Kinsey (11:58):
Right. So, Ches and I met in Amarillo when I was there after I moved back from Houston and then his job brought him back here to Lubbock, which was a no-brainer for both of us, because we had both gone to school here. We didn’t know each other in school, but we’d both gone to school here We’re big tech, sports enthusiasts. So it made sense for us to come back here. He proposed in May. So the end of my second year of teaching in Amarillo and I moved down here to Lubbock that following fall after I got a job that summer teaching and we got married that December. And so, yeah I was in Lubbock basically to answer your question, that’s a long way to arrive at the answer, but I had moved back to Lubbock after we got engaged.

Rai (12:51):
Yeah. And then how long were you guys married before you made the decision to leave?

Kinsey (12:56):
Four months, yeah.

Rai (12:59):
Okay. So that year you got married was actually your last year of teaching

Kinsey (13:02):
Last year of teaching, yes. I mean, like I said, I was doing a lot of, I’ve always just done creative work for people on the side, you know, invitations and things like that. A little bit of website stuff here and there. And yeah, it just made sense after I was doing all the creative work that we did for the wedding as well. I think Ches saw how happy that made me, although it’s a stressful time, like, let’s be honest

Kinsey (13:33):
I’m doing all of this DIY stuff and it’s just great, but, I mean it was fun. And so, yeah, honestly, when I first started my business, I was going to focus on event invitations and stationary. I was Blue Table Design and Stationery. You know, I’ve always loved a handwritten note. I love getting beautiful invitations in the mail. I think it’s kind of, you know, the nice throwback to a simpler time when you get old fashioned things in the mail. I love that. So I was going to do that and I had an Etsy store and I was making a few sales, but then my father-in-law approached me about revamping his website and doing some marketing materials for him, for his engineering firm in Austin. And so I started doing that work and I loved it. And I thought, you know, I’m looking at the revenue that my invitations were bringing in versus the revenue that a website was bringing in and recurring revenue at that.

Kinsey (14:33):
And I thought, hmm, maybe I need to pivot a little bit here. So I started focusing more on websites and the work that I do now, although I wasn’t as organized, my offerings weren’t as streamlined, you know, I didn’t know what I was doing. I just sort of like, I would have sales calls back then and just say, all right, what do you need? Oh, sure. Yes, I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. Get off the phone and then stress out over pricing for hours. It just was, it was really kind of, I was flying by the seat of my pants at that point, but I knew that focusing on websites instead of invitations and stationary was probably a good route to take.

Rai (15:18):
Especially with the trajectory of the market and everyone going digital and even brick and mortar businesses, needing websites. I mean, you get a lot of work for local restaurants and things like that, building their websites and, and building their social media profiles and things like that. And then I remember shortly after we met, well, very shortly after we met, you ended up taking a leave from your business because you had a baby girl. And tell me what that was like, because I feel like you went through, I feel like you’re such a good example of the freelancing journey, because a lot of these things that we freelancers tend to kick ourselves for, you also experienced, but at least from my outward perception, you didn’t kick yourself over it. You’re like, okay. Yeah. I didn’t know what I was doing. I was flying by the seat of my pants.

Rai (16:13):
I was stressing over pricing, things like that. But you took those as opportunities to learn and grow and you never held yourself back from actually doing it. That’s what I love about your story is you had no idea how to price yourself. You had no idea what packages you wanted to offer. You had no idea what your future of your business was going to look like, but you just knew that this was the right path. And luckily, you had the encouragement of your husband and you went into it and then part way into your journey, you ended up having a baby, which is another thing that a lot of female freelancers think, Oh my God, I’ve got to have the business up to this level. And I’ve got to have this amazing structure that I can rely on and let the business run on autopilot while I’m on maternity leave and all of those things. But that, wasn’t your experience. You didn’t go into maternity leave having this perfectly designed plan. You were just living in the moment and making the best decisions that you could for yourself at the time. And you took every opportunity to learn from each of those experiences.

Kinsey (17:18):
Yeah. I mean, I’ve tried and that’s not to say that it hasn’t been without its ups and downs, you know? So after I started, after I made the jump, and I was working, we decided to make another jump and start a family. And that process just wasn’t straightforward for us. I was able to get pregnant, but I wasn’t able to stay pregnant. And we had a couple of losses that really threw me. Well, of course it threw me for a loop, but it also threw the business for a loop. You know, I was officing at home. I wasn’t seeing a lot of people. I just, I wasn’t handling it well at all. And I had a client who I was really close to that I think I had missed a deadline or something, and we were talking and I ended up sharing with her what was going on.

Kinsey (18:15):
And she said like, her personality is so sweet and so kind. And so I have so much respect for her and I was expecting some really loving words and some padding, and she didn’t do that. She said, Kinsey, like you got to get up and you’ve got to throw yourself into this work. You cannot let a situation like this basically ruin all of the work that you’ve done so far. And I really, I think back to that, and I’m really appreciative of that because she was right. And luckily around that time, I learned about Hub City Workspace and I mean, just totally random came up on my Facebook feed. And so I got an office there and that was really helpful to just get out of the house and focus on my work and throw myself into that. And so yeah, that’s when you and I met and eventually we were able to have a successful pregnancy a few years into the process and not a few years, I guess, two.

Kinsey (19:24):
And so, yeah, now we have Cameron and I’ll never forget the week that I left Hub City Workspace. I told the owner, Jacob and some other guys in that office they’re like, all right, I’ll see you guys in four weeks. And I remember Jacob kind of looking at, I mean, he didn’t say anything didn’t argue with me, but he has kids of his own and he’s going like, okay, well, I didn’t actually darken the door of that city workspace again for like four months. And that was to move my stuff out, to move my office home because it just, again, what was I thinking? I don’t know, but she was going to sleep, you know, what do newborns do they sleep well, they sleep. But when do you sleep? When do you get out of your bathrobe? Like, I mean, it just, it wouldn’t have worked.

Kinsey (20:16):
And that particular location was open air. And I mean, what am I going to do? Fire up the breast pump in my office? That just, it wasn’t, it wasn’t gonna work. So I moved my office back home and started trying to figure out what to do, you know, Ches and I did have to have a come to Jesus meeting about five months in where he was like, all right, what are you going to do? Are you going to make this work or are you going to put her in daycare and either go back to teaching or find work at an agency? And I decided to try to make this work. Luckily I have a good friend who kinda nudged me along as far as getting Cameron into a parent’s day out program. And that has been, that’s made all the difference. Like she’s been going since she was six months old and that’s turned into four days a week from 9 to 2:45. So I’m able to actually work. And I haven’t felt guilty about it. Luckily I’m really thankful for that as well. She’s never looked back. There’s been maybe one day when she’s whined a little bit when I’ve dropped her off, but she’s happy she likes getting out of the house and playing for few hours

Kinsey (21:45):
So it has allowed me to focus on the business more and yeah, around the time that I got her into parent’s day out is when you and I started, we reconnected and started working together with Cornell. And then that led itself to me learning about what you do at Chiron. And that just, it’s all just kind of come together and the work that we’ve done together and Chiron has really helped me feel the way that I do now about growing my business.

Rai (22:19):
And what is that feeling that you have about growing your business?

Kinsey (22:22):
That I have the capacity to take on more new clients, that I have a set schedule that I work, try to adhere to every day for work. I think a lot of entrepreneurs get stuck in the idea of just having to work constantly. For me it was fear of failing is what motivated me to – I always refer to it as working like my hair’s on fire, like a teaching book that I got, this should have been my first clue that teaching wasn’t really going to be that cushy for me, but it’s a book called teach like your hair’s on fire. It’s really popular. And I know it’s speaking to like being passionate about your teaching, but I apply that to, I mean, how long can your hair stay on fire? It’s not gonna be good. It’s gonna burn down. It’s going to hurt. Like, that is how I was working before you and I got together and started working on Chiron, you know any spare moment I had, I felt like I needed to be working. I wasn’t fully present ever. I mean, I was like a duck on the water, you know, like just swimming, paddling, like hell underneath. That’s what I was doing. And in my free time I was reading professional books. So there was just no, there was no time for just downtime.

Rai (23:56):
Yeah. And to just be you and to just be a mom and just be a wife.

Kinsey (24:00):
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Rai (24:03):
I feel like you went through so many huge hallmark lessons of the freelance journey in such a short amount of time. I mean, to kind of take you back a little bit, what was it like for you when you got a office space? What did that do to your sense of confidence, your sense of operations, your business structure, your business schedule, what did that do for you as a freelancer?

Kinsey (24:32):
It took me, of course I was going through some things personally, like I mentioned at the time, but it was, it was just nice to feel like I had an actual office and I didn’t have, you know, the drier going off and running to pull clothes or I wasn’t tempted to catch up on some trash reality TV during my lunch break, you know, I felt like a real working human at that time, you know. And I know that that’s not the right choice for everyone in every situation. Like I said right now, this is my dining room and that’s just the way that it needs to be right now for this season. But eventually I would love to get back into an office space, a dedicated office space where I’m not tempted to, you know, get up and clean the fingerprints off the window or whatever while I’m working.

Rai (25:27):
Yeah. And it’s funny because before we started this episode, before we started the show, you and I were talking about the old days of being in the coworking space and some of the conversations we would overhear and someone like overfilling the coffee machine and it’s just making a mess and spattering or someone leaving it on and it’s burning or, you know, people are doing, God knows what in the bathroom, just, you know, a lot of people think that, Oh, I’ll go get an office and I’ll be free of all these distractions. Well, yeah. That is a benefit of getting an office space or even going to just a co-working space where you have one of those, you know, freely available desks or something like that. But at the same time, there were plenty of distractions within the coworking space as well. Yeah.

Kinsey (26:15):
And sometimes they were really welcomed, I guess. I had missed just, just office, just being part of an office, you know, the office life, like a little bit. So that was really fun. I liked being around people again, but I also loved being able to shut the door, you know, it’s the best of both worlds. Really. If you wanted to chit chat about the weather with someone you could, but then you’d go away to your office. Shut the door.

Rai (27:00):
Yeah. And one of the things that I think I got the most value out of being in the co-working space was the connections. I mean, I’m still friends on Facebook with everybody there. And now the couple who runs an insurance agency out of Hub City Workspace, they’re our insurance agents and they’ve saved us so much money, not to sound like a guy who do commercial, but also you and I connected. And Jacob Hubic is amazing and so connected in the community. And he’s been just a wealth of knowledge and, you know, interpersonal connections and things like that. It really opened a lot of doors for us to kind of get out of our bubbles for a while and reconnect with that working world. And now both of us are actually back at home now. So what was the transition like for you and how have you tried to maintain that sense of professionalism and I’m an official business owner and you know, how do you shut your doors so to speak at home now?

Kinsey (28:05):
Well, really I would, I keep going back to the schedule thing, which is so not me. I mean, as we talked about, it’s not me, it’s not in my personality to be really disciplined with a schedule and a plan and things like that, but it’s almost like I think of it as like a cure for the right brain, like the right brain type creative person. It helps things. It helps me settle down. And if I, so basically I have a schedule to answer your question. I don’t even try to work when I’m not, not during my schedule. If Cameron’s home, I don’t even try, my computer is shut because I’m not being present for her. I’m not doing good work, I’m spending, it really just lends itself to frustration for me. So I just adhere to that schedule. And as far as feeling like a real business person, I don’t know, things like this where I actually get dressed, that helps me feel like I’m a business person. But unfortunately, that’s just where I’m going to have to be for a while, while I have little ones around.

Rai (29:27):
That’s the next thing that I wanted to ask you about was how have you transitioned from solopreneur main focus is building this business to now mom, main focus is growing this little human and keeping her safe and happy. And then as she’s gotten older, trying to balance those two priorities of, okay, I still have to build this business and, you know, support my family’s finances. And I also still have this little human to take care of. Yeah. How do you reconcile that?

Kinsey (30:01):
Honestly, I’m just doing my best every day. You know, I’m just taking it one day at a time as far as that goes, but I will say, you know, I think back to that time when I was supposed to be just focused on building my business, I wasn’t very focused. I didn’t know where things were headed. But having Cameron has helped me with that focus. Like it’s changed everything. I want to be, I want to do this now more than ever because of the freedom that it affords me with her or the freedom that it gives me with her and, her schedule and the things that I can do for my family, with a role like this. So, yeah it’s weird for it to work like that when I had a lot more time and I had a lot more resources for myself, I wasn’t as focused, but now that she’s here, I’ve kind of ratcheted things up to be more successful now.

Rai (31:14):
Would you say that you are the type of person who works well under pressure?

Kinsey (31:17):
Yes, definitely.

Rai (31:19):
So now the pressure of raising a little one is really kind of kicking your butt into gear.

Kinsey (31:26):
Yeah, definitely.

Rai (31:29):
And what fascinates me is after you had your daughter, you not only went back to building Blue Table, but you built a second business. You have another business called the Busy Baby Company. So tell me a little bit about that and how did that come to be in the midst of what already to me, seems like a very full plate of being a freelance graphic designer, managing all these clients and having a baby girl.

Kinsey (31:55):
Yeah well, she is like most kids and she likes her toys that light up and ding, ding dong, you know, sing to her, but only for a minute, the things that when she was younger and even now, now that she’s two, the things that keep her attention are things that aren’t necessarily traditionally toys like latches and you know, the little what’s it called, the doorstopper thing that goes boingingoinnng and that’s her favorite. That was her favorite thing. And so I started researching and it was something on Pinterest, like these little busy boards that are a bunch of latches and things like that. Basically put on a board for kids to play with. And instead of buying one, I wanted to make one, well, it was a really big hit and I posted it, posted her playing with it on social media.

Kinsey (32:56):
And I had a lot of messages from friends and family saying, Oh my gosh, where did you get that board? Like, I loved that. I would give that as a gift, blah, blah, blah. So that was in my head. And then, you know, COVID-19 lockdown occurred and I had a little more time at home and I just started prototyping as the technical term is, and set up an Etsy store and started selling these boards. And they’re based on Montessori principles. I wasn’t a teacher in a Montessori school, but I’ve always for that age group, you know, preschool, young elementary. I love the guiding principles of Montessori education. I just, I liked them a lot. So that’s what it’s based upon. And yeah, I’ve been doing that. I could do more with Busy Baby Company for sure.

Kinsey (33:53):
And I am open to that in the future, but right now I turned into a toy factory at the time, and the only time I have allocated to work on them is when Cameron is asleep. So after 7:00 PM and, you know it’s kind of wild around here to have both dogs in, husband home, people over possibly, and making, cranking out four busy boards in the middle of the floor. So yeah, I wouldn’t say it’s back burner, but it’s definitely like a side thing that I’m doing, I mean, I’ve enjoyed it a lot, but again, I probably need to put some systems in place. Maybe get some help cranking those bad boys out.

Rai (34:45):
Well, and one thing, so most of what you and I talk about is Blue Table and how to build your design business. But we did talk briefly about Busy Baby Company and how to price your boards. And one of the things that I remember that I sent you was you’ve got to increase your prices. People on Etsy will pay crazy high prices for things that they know are handmade, the Montessori concept that demands big bucks, and you really resisted raising your prices for a while. And then at some point, what was that tipping point for you? Because you did raise the prices and they’re still selling like crazy.

Kinsey (35:21):
Yeah, it was Christmas, Christmas being, you know, an elf in Santas workshop in the living room floor with everything else that goes on during Christmas, I thought, okay, I still like making these. But I think there’s got be, some thing’s got to give here and I’ve got to increase the prices. So that I feel good about the level of care that I take when I create them all.

Rai (35:51):
Yeah. What was that internal process like for you? Was it relatively easy or was it kind of a struggle, especially as a creative. Pricing something that you’re making with your hands? Which a lot of us, we think oh, these are easy for me to make or, you know, oh, this just comes naturally or, oh, I like making these so I shouldn’t charge as much. So what was that like for you?

Kinsey (36:15):
I mean, it was easy. It was easy. Like I said, it was a lot at Christmas time and there’ve been some spurts. I don’t know if it was the, the ads that I was running at the time or what, but there have been some other times where I’ve had like four or five to make in a week. And you know, I guess just baring burnout, I guess, was part of the rationale there. Plus you had mentioned to me that I should raise my prices. Plus my husband is always a fan of raising the prices. It wasn’t that tough of a decision. But it is one that I had to come to myself, you know?

Rai (36:55):
Yeah. Ultimately you had to be comfortable with it. And it sounds like that realization of, if I continue on this path, at this rate, I’m going to burn out and that dynamic of just raising your prices, you still were doing about the same amount of work. And you just raised your prices on that. That goes to show just how much of an energetic exchange our rates as freelancers really are because it’s not just, Oh yeah, this thing comes easy to me. And I like making it, which not to say that the busy boards are easy. I’ve seen them, they’re very intricate and you take a lot of care to polish and perfect and smooth them. So they’re safe for kiddos, but you enjoy them. And a lot of us think when we’re early in our creative careers that, Oh, if I enjoy doing this, I shouldn’t charge very much. You know, it’s fun for me. I’ll just charge a little bit of money, but you got to that point where you realize if it’s going to stay fun, I needed to increase the prices. And that is that direct connection between what we’re getting paid and what we’re putting out.

Kinsey (38:02):
Right, right. I agree. Yeah, I’m practical in general. The idea of paying a certain amount for a child’s toy, that really gave me pause as far as wanting to raise the prices. But I just had to, like you said, I had to reconcile like the amount of work that I’m putting into it and the quality of what it is. And that helped me. So yeah. Prices are higher and things are still selling. Not as much, but that’s okay. I’m okay with that.

Rai (38:49):
So one thing that I wanted to go back to what you said at the very beginning, and this is the last question I’ll ask you. About sales. So you mentioned that you would hop on a phone call and your sales calls were basically you saying, what do you need? Oh yeah, I can do that. Yeah. I can do that. Yeah. I can do that. And I think that’s so common again for beginner freelancers, when we’re just kind of feeling our way through this whole world of I have this skill. I don’t know what it looks like. I can do a lot of things, but I don’t know what people want. How did your sales calls and your sales process evolve from that “What do you need” call to today?

Kinsey (39:31):
Yeah, I wish I had a tried and true formula that I could pass along to a brand new freelancer and say, here’s how you figure it out. But for me, it was just experience, talking to business owners and figuring out what it is that they want. That helped me figure it out, what to offer. And then you and I got together in one of our Chiron calls and we just straight up, laid out my most popular services and set up. And I created a one sheeter that I can now send to people. I sent it out today. I sent two out yesterday. I mean, that has been a key thing for me. It has taken the stress out of who like him hauling around, what, they want this, but they want this. It’s nice to just have something to refer to. That’s a baseline. I mean, and I always say this list is not exhaustive. I can add many other services. There are things that we can do to make things more custom for you. But here is a starting point. And I mean, yeah it’s been, it’s huge for me.

Rai (40:46):
And I remember one of the steps that we went through in helping you narrow down that sheet was what do you actually enjoy doing? Because you are doing all sorts of things for businesses that you didn’t really like, the things that you were designing you weren’t super crazy about as we figured out what you enjoy doing the most. And those are the ones that made it onto that one sheet, the ones that you enjoy, the ones that were the most profitable. And yeah, you can always say, you know, if you, if you get in the door with a client with the stuff that you really love and that you feel is worth your time and energy for the money, once you build that relationship with the client, then you can always say, Oh hey, I noticed that you guys are doing this. Do you need help with that design? Or they will come to you and say the same thing. Hey, we’re putting together this presentation. Do you do slide decks by chance? Oh yeah, I do that. Here’s how much I would charge.

Kinsey (41:38):
Exactly. And it’s so much better for me. I mean, I was at a point, like I said, I would be on a sales call. So it was either in person or on the phone. And then, I would take all the information they needed come home, decide on pricing, create a proposal because I’m a creative type. I probably recreated my proposal every time I sent it out because I thought it could be better each time, you know? So it just, it was exhausting just getting my foot in the door and now I have this one sheet. Again, it doesn’t outline everything that I do, but it’s a starting point. And that, like I said, that’s been huge for me, so.

Rai (42:25):
Excellent. Awesome. Well, Kinsey, thank you so much for being here and tell us where can people check out you and your businesses.

Kinsey (42:34):
If you go to bluetabledesign.com, you can see my past and current work. And if there’s a project that you are interested in discussing, you can book a call directly from a link on, excuse me, my contact page.

Rai (42:51):
Perfect. And the busy baby co is on Etsy, right? Yes. Love it. Thank you so much, Kinsey. Awesome. Thank you.